Magnesium: The Goldilocks Nutrient?

Leah 0:00

I'm in my magnesium rabbit hole.

Tina 0:02

Dr. Sherman,

Leah 0:03

What's up? I just, no, I just, you know, our previous supplement, I was like, oh, I hate going down the B12 rabbit hole. And now I'm like, Ooh, magnesium rabbit hole. Just a different rabbit hole.

Tina 0:16

you like it better?

Leah 0:17

I like magnesium.

Tina 0:19

Do you like it as much as you dislike b12?

Leah 0:21

Yeah, completely. It's like the opposite. Hi folks. We're here today to talk to you about magnesium.

Tina 0:30

what it is, what it isn't. Can you get too much

Leah 0:32

Where's it come from? Why do we need it?

Tina 0:36

Where is it stored?

Leah 0:37

Where is it stored?

Tina 0:38

Why would you take one magnesium supplement over another supplement?

Leah 0:41

All kinds of questions. What's the role of magnesium in cancer care? All kinds of stuff.

Tina 0:46

Why does it make you have diarrhea at some level?

Leah 0:50

That's right. Why does it?

Tina 0:52

All very intriguing questions that we're gonna have to answer,

Leah 0:54

on this episode. Uh, the cancer P.

Tina 0:57

so stay tuned. I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one

Leah 1:03

and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside

Tina 1:07

And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

Leah 1:11

But we're not your doctors

Tina 1:13

This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

Leah 1:17

do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

Tina 1:22

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

Leah 1:28

Welcome to the cancer pod

Introduction

Leah 1:46

So as we always start, when we talk about supplements, it's like, why are supplements being used? And so supplements are used to prevent or treat acute nutrient deficiencies. so I, I mean, there's so many different things that can happen to a person if they have. a magnesium deficiency. so I mean, if somebody is having lots of fluid loss, right, you're gonna lose a lot of your electrolytes, your minerals there is preventing, delaying or treating a chronic nutrient deficiency. And so that would be like diabetes or, um, hypertension, using it to address cardiovascular disease.

Tina 2:25

Yeah, this could be one of the underlying factors to our very high rates of chronic degenerative diseases in the United States, because by some accounts and some surveys out there, half of those who live in the United States are deficient in magnesium in their regular diet.

Leah 2:42

Yeah. And we'll get to why. And the why is because of the foods that it's found in. And. lack of that in people's diets. And then the third part of why someone would take a supplement would be green pharmacy. And the first thing I always think about for, um, magnesium is like constipation, right? People take it to address constipation, people take it to address muscle cramping.

Tina 3:04

Yep. And just to remind everyone, green Pharmacy, by that we mean using something natural or a supplement in. Higher than normal doses to achieve a desired effect, which is often symptom relief.

Leah 3:16

You're using it alongside or in lieu of, uh, medication,

What is Magnesium?

Leah 3:21

whether it's over the counter prescription. So magnesium, what is it? Anyways, hear so much about it. I remember in school learning when in doubt magnesium, did you learn that? I learned that.

Tina 3:32

Did not know that.

Leah 3:33

When in doubt, magnesium

Tina 3:35

Well, ultimately magnesium is a metal, right? So on the periodic table of elements, it is a metal. And when metals are essential for our bodies, we call them minerals. So it's a essential mineral for the human body.

Leah 3:48

and it is abundant, in bone and muscle.

Tina 3:52

Yeah, and that is why we'll talk about testing for magnesium later. But because there is. So much in the bone and muscle, approximately 90% is in the bone plus muscle. The bone is our storage, just like it is for calcium. So if there is a deficiency or a low level of magnesium in the serum in your blood, but your heart still needs that magnesium or your liver needs it, or your brain to make neurotransmitters, well, you've got a bank of magnesium in your bone. So rather. Let it go low in your serum. Your body's very clever. It will just take it outta the bone, put it in the serum, and bring it to whatever organ needs it at that time so your bones can suffer over time and have a net loss of bone just to mobilize the magnesium if you're not putting enough in your mouth. So remember, you don't wanna use your bank of magnesium if you can help. you want it to go in your mouth and you keep depositing it, so to speak, so that you can then use it in your organ systems where it's needed in over 300 enzyme reactions in the human body.

Leah 4:54

Yeah, it's, it's pretty popular in our body.

Tina 4:58

Alright, and, and just another total random factoid. It's the fourth most abundant mineral in the body.

Leah 5:03

What's the number one

Tina 5:04

I knew you were gonna ask me that. Calcium. I don't know. I would assume it's calcium.

Leah 5:09

let's look it up. Hold on. Calcium is the most abundant mineral in the body.

Tina 5:15

All right.

Leah 5:16

So most people when they think about magnesium, they think about things like, it's in my calcium pill, or, yeah, I take it because I have constipation every once in a while, that kind of thing. but it is so much more than that.

Magnesium Deficiency

Leah 5:30

And oh, you're talking about, um, magnesium deficiencies. What I think is really interesting is people can have kind of signs of. magnesium deficiency, but then when they get their blood work done, they're like, oh no, I'm fine. I'm totally.

Tina 5:45

Yeah, because serum magnesium, which is what most conventional docs will run, they're just doing a quick, you know, really cursory look at nutrients. They're not doing a deep and thorough look at nutrient status. Serum magnesium will be normal because as I mentioned, you can pull it from your bone and It's not a very sensitive indicator. Of magnesium deficiency at all. So you can be low or deficient within the cells of your body and organ systems, despite the fact that your serum looks normal.

Leah 6:19

And so what would some of these signs of deficiency be?

Tina 6:23

I put cramps and spasms high on the list cause I think it's early and I kind of think of it more in my experience, and I don't know if this was learned and then reinforced through my clinical years, or I just noticed it over time. It's a lot of small muscles and twitches, so you know the little muscles in the face, for example, whether it's above the lip or above your eye or eyelid. Um, small muscle twitches seem to be more indicative of magnesium as opposed to like a charlie horse in your thigh, which correlates more with calcium de.

Leah 6:54

and I've seen. Help with people who have Charlie horses, because I find that if people take, like I take a lot of calcium in my diet. I take a lot of calcium pills for my bone health, and then they'll think about like, oh, I have muscle cramps, and so I eat a banana, or I take potassium, like nobody's thinking magnesium.

Tina 7:15

Mm.

Leah 7:15

And

A little calcium tangent

Leah 7:16

so there needs to be that balance. I mean, I've had patients who in their diet, Get over a thousand milligrams a day of calcium plus take calcium pills on top of that. And so if you're not balancing that out, cuz I always think of calcium as contracting and magnesium as relaxing, And so, um, yeah, I think it, I think it's just on a case by case kind of basis as to, you know, you need that magnesium to balance out that much calcium.

Tina 7:45

Yeah, I have an extreme version of. I had, someone come to me many years ago, we're talking like 15, 18 years ago with cramps in their calves, and they had seen a lot of docs. They had gone to the er, it was so bad she couldn't walk and it was bilateral, so it was both calves and going through all the supplements. She was taking over 2000 milligrams of calcium at the time it was prescribed to her, strangely enough, by her osteoporosis doctor. and I said, where are you supposed to take some magnesium alongside this? And she said, no. And she double checked. And for whatever reason, magnesium wasn't being prescribed alongside the calcium. So she, over time, and it did take years, got such a severe magnesium deficiency. Um, the way we figured it out, I'll tell you cuz I had my clinic then I had IV nutrients going I gave her a magnesium. Sulfate push. So I slowly pushed magnesium sulfate, um, directly into her bloodstream. She said that night was the first one where she could actually sleep through the night without waking up with her legs in pain. So basically, I didn't have to do any labs. We just put her on magnesium, made sure she never went below it, you know, two to one ratio, calcium to magnesium after that, and her supplements, and it took a while, took many months to kind of work itself out. A new homeostasis, a new balance point. Yeah, it was pretty extreme and it was unfortunate cuz she had suffered for quite some time But um, no one along the way had paid enough attention to what she was taking to see the, problem with that. So megadosing, calcium without magnesium will eventually lead to a magnesium de.

Leah 9:20

Oh yeah, for sure.

Tina 9:22

It sounds super simple and then, I mean, to us it is because we wouldn't do that ever. But, um, there's a lot of calcium supplements out there with no magnesium in them.

Leah 9:30

and then people take in high doses of calcium in their diet.

Tina 9:34

Yes. And in the grand scheme, taking in more than 2000, maybe 2200 milligrams of calcium between your supplement and your diet, once you start getting over those kind of levels, you are taking in too much calcium, regardless of magnesium. Let's just put that aside for a moment, just. don't, you don't need that much. You don't need to like take a supplement with 2000 and eat dairy.

Leah 9:55

Yeah, and a lot of people when they take those supplements, they're taking like a thousand milligrams twice a day. We talked about this all in the calcium episode, which you can always go back and listen to, but yeah, you don't wanna take super high doses of calcium anyways cuz you're not even absorbing it.

Tina 10:11

right. You could just lead to some constipation. But the, and the reason that we emphasized it in that episode was, it looks like too much calcium. Those large doses of calcium, especially without enough magnesium, can lead to more cardiovascular disease risk. And so there's more risk of, you know, cardiovascular disease, whether it's atherosclerosis, heart disease, that kind of thing. Heart attacks. So that's why we're putting a ceiling to the calcium.

Back to Magnesium

Tina 10:36

Alright, back to Magnes.

Leah 10:37

Yeah. So yeah, back to magnesium, and. Efficiency, anxiety is another one.

Tina 10:43

Yeah. Nervousness, anxiety, irritability.

Leah 10:46

Mm-hmm. and interestingly, fatigue because people will think of like, oh, I take magnesium at night to help me relax, to help me go to sleep. But fatigue can be a sign of magnesium deficiency because of the role that it plays in, um, is it, uh, electron transport?

Tina 11:05

Yes, within the mitochondria, we'll just leave it there.

Leah 11:08

Yeah, I, I like how it's like suddenly like science, like the burst of like a science-y thing comes into my head and I'm like, oh, this is like, it's coming to me. Oh my God. This is undergrad electron transport Mitochondria. Mitochondria makes energy for yourselves. you go. That's what we're gonna

Tina 11:26

Yes, we'll leave it at that. And most magnesium in the body is within the cell, inside the cells, and so that's where it's having most of its action. Intimately linked with producing energy inside the cells. It's also intimately linked with neurotransmitters, so your brain function. We talk about irritability and anxiety. A deficiency can also show up as sleep disturbance, the inability to sleep well.

Leah 11:53

right? Because it's part of that whole cycle that I keep mentioning, I've mentioned since melatonin mentioned in b12. Um, yeah, it's the whole like turning tryptophan into melatonin, all of that. It's part of that cycle.

Tina 12:08

Yeah, so it's a, it's a necessary co-factor.

Leah 12:11

It's one of the 300 plus uses. So, um, any other deficiencies that we can think of? I guess like, why, you know, why would

Vitamin D & Magnesium - relationship

Leah 12:20

we become deficient? Oh, you know, one thing that I'd like to mention, about magnesium is sometimes when people take vitamin D and maybe they're not absorbing it or, or they're not, um, their level's not coming up. It could be a sign of low magne. like you need magnesium in order to absorb or to utilize vitamin D in your body.

Tina 12:41

So if their vitamin D is low, despite the fact that they're taking it, you're saying it could be magnesium deficiency.

Leah 12:47

It, it could be related to magnesium. Yeah. I don't remember where I saw that, but I saw it somewhere and I thought, oh, that's a really interesting thing. I'm gonna file it away without citing it in my brain. But yeah, I do recall, You know, like, oh, I gotta remember this. Next time I see somebody who has a hard time keeping their vitamin D up. Are they getting magnesium in their diet? Like it doesn't even have to be a supplement. I think that's something that we need to really emphasize about our Supplement 1 0 1 episodes

What foods are high in Mg?

Leah 13:12

is that we tend to favor food,

Tina 13:17

Mm.

Leah 13:18

food first. And with magnesium, there are so many good foods. that aren't very popular in the United States. or, I don't know if they're not popular. They're just not common in the diet.

Tina 13:32

Right. I would agree. Yeah. Cuz nuts and seeds are top of the list and

Leah 13:36

Green leafy vegetables, which I think is where, you know, the, they don't call it the standard American diet anymore. What do they call it?

Tina 13:45

I don't know.

Leah 13:46

They call it something else. Anyways, um, it's, I don't think it's a very popular part. of your average American diet. Um, and I'm not talking like, you know, the iceberg lettuce type of things. I'm talking about like the things with really dark color, spinach, kale, charred, those kinds of things. because it's in the chlorophyl, it's in the chlorophyl molecule, that's what's the center of the chlorophyl molecule is magnesium. Um, legumes. So peanuts are legumes, but then so are black beans and. Garbanzo beans, all of those kinds of things, right? Garbanzos are like gums,

Tina 14:21

Yes.

Leah 14:22

Why am I like, wait, why? Why am I brain fart on this? Um, whole grains, another place that might be lacking in your average diet. the unprocessed grains,

Tina 14:33

Mm.

Leah 14:35

um, and then nuts and seeds.

Tina 14:37

Yeah. And it's pretty, you know, nuts and seeds are one of those things that are simple to integrate whatever your diet is, you can always add nuts and seeds, you know, so whatever you make, you can. Everything from pumpkin seeds to walnuts, um, chia seeds, flax seeds,

Leah 14:52

yeah. Almonds.

Tina 14:54

pecans,

Leah 14:55

I love pe. I love pecans.

Tina 14:57

pecans, or pecans.

Leah 14:59

Pumpkin seeds are pretty high too. They're pretty high in in magnesium, which is kind of cool.

Tina 15:05

And zinc as well.

Leah 15:06

Yeah. And they have so many other good things in them.

Tina 15:09

A big fan of the pumpkin seed because of the magnesium. It's got some zinc and it has trip to fan,

Leah 15:14

Mm-hmm.

Tina 15:15

so pumpkin seeds are my go-to. I put pumpkin seeds, raw pumpkin seeds on a lot of things. I just throw it right on top, whatever I'm eating. So yeah, it doesn't matter if it's yogurt or, or oatmeal or a salad. I just put some pumpkin seeds on top.

Leah 15:29

I do the same. I, I think I, I do the same. I have my bag of Trader Joe's pumpkin seeds. I have my bag of almonds. Cashews are also pretty high in, in Magnes.

Tina 15:38

It's good to have an excuse for cashew cuz it's like the one thing everyone seems to agree tastes really good. As far as nuts and seeds, I would say it's the favorite.

Leah 15:46

Yeah. It's like the, it's like, it's like the candy of the, nut.

Tina 15:50

you know, and what's nice about when we're talking about a mineral, you don't have to worry about cooking it out. It's not gonna change, you know, remember it's a, it's essentially, it's a type of metal. And so when you cook it, whether you're roasting your seed nuts and seeds, or you're making a broth and you're, or you're cooking the beans, it's not going anywhere. It doesn't float away in the vapors of what you're eating and doesn't get changed by the cooking process. So just know that minerals in general can handle high heat, no problem.

Leah 16:19

Right. If you're eating the nuts and seeds to get some of the beneficial oils, you might not wanna use high heat, but if you're doing it to get the minerals and then you know, you could put roasted pumpkin seeds in one thing and then have raw or another, I mean, mix it up.

Tina 16:34

Mm.

Leah 16:35

There's so many good things about nuts and seeds. There is a nutrient that I found that can interact with magnesium, and that would be more if someone was taking it as a supplement, which I've seen a lot of people taking zinc for long periods of time, and that over time can interfere with magnesium. So just to kind of keep that in mind, if people have a really low magnesium, In their diet and they're taking high doses of zinc over long periods of time for whatever reason people are taking it, that can further contribute to being deficient in magnesium.

Tina 17:14

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like any mineral that we eat, you don't absorb everything you put in your mouth. So For every 100 milligrams of magnesium that you eat, you absorb 30, 40% at best of that. So it's important to keep that in mind and you're gonna absorb even less um, if you don't have adequate stomach acid, you would absorb even less than that cuz stomach acid is essential to absorb all of your minerals. Magnesium included. So if you're on a proton pump inhibitor or an acid blocker, you're gonna absorb less than 30% of the magnesium you put in your mouth. So just keep that in mind. You may have to put in more, or work with someone like us, like a naturopath to get. To modify your, your acid blocker.

Leah 18:00

And, the other thing would be, as we've mentioned before with other nutrients would be surgeries. And so if you have had, Surgery on your digestive tract that will affect how you absorb all kinds of nutrients, magnesium included.

Do Chlorophyll Supps have Mg?

Tina 18:15

Mm-hmm.

Leah 18:16

What else we got? Oh, you know, one thing I wanted to mention with, um, with Magnesium, cuz I touched on Chlorophyl, is that I have in the past, you know, like supplements, certain supplements come in and out of favor and for a while Chlorophyll was like a really popular supplement for people to take and. You know, people are like, well, I don't eat a lot of green leafy vegetables, and so I take Chlorophyl because it's got all the nutrients in it and it doesn't, chlorophyl, well, chlorophyl in nature. So what you get in your spinach and whatnot, um, has a magnesium center. And so that's why you can get it into your diet from eating those foods. But when you extract the chlorophyl in. Chlorophyl tincture, um, magnesium's very unstable, and so it's replaced by copper instead, and so I haven't seen it in a long time. I haven't seen people taking Chlorophyl in a long time, but that's just something to keep in mind that taking a liquid Chlorophyl supplement is not going to replete you of magnesium because there's most likely no magnesium in it. So you gotta eat food.

Tina 19:23

You know, Yeah, I was just gonna say we should just, it used to be for some reason, and maybe it's just I can't, I don't know the origins of this, but an apple a day keeps the doctor away. We really should say like a handful of leaves a day. eat your green leafies.

Leah 19:38

well, specific leaves. Not like, not like oak leaves or anything.

Tina 19:41

A handful of green leafies a day. Keeps the doctor away.

Leah 19:45

Yeah, a nice, like a cup, like, you know, or I guess if you don't really wanna do it, Hundred grams. A hundred grams of of green leafy vegetables a day. Get your scale out

Tina 19:56

I was just gonna say, what does that look like? A hundred grams?

Leah 19:58

Well, cuz you know, with like a cup, it's like, how, how much are you packing in there? Because they're leafy and they're green and so like, you know, you really gotta pack 'em in there.

Tina 20:06

Mm-hmm.

Leah 20:07

So, yeah, I don't know what a hundred grams looks like, I suppose.

Tina 20:10

So I totally agree that food first always. And if you do need to get a supplement, let's talk about forms of supplements that are available and which ones are better than others after the break.

Leah 20:20

Perfect.

Which form of Mg is best?

Leah 20:31

So you mentioned that there are different forms of magnesium, and I think that's one thing people see when they go to the store, right? It's like, oh, my doctor told me I need to take magnesium. There's so many different types to take. magnesium oxide is the one I think that is most commonly prescribed. If somebody has a magnesium deficiency in the cancer setting, that's what I see my patients getting, you know, slow mag magnesium oxide.

Tina 20:57

Hmm,

Leah 20:58

Um, that might not necessarily be the most helpful form.

Tina 21:03

well, I tell people to take magnesium oxide if they're constipated, cuz it's the least absorbable form. So it's the most likely to carry on into the colon where it will pull water in and loosen the stool.

Leah 21:18

Right, because people use magnesium for preps before getting colonoscopies.

Tina 21:22

Yeah, so basically if you take enough of it, like that prep, which is a liquid magnesium citrate, um, if you take enough magnesium, the reason it leads to looser stool and diarrhea, is you have gone past the point of being able to absorb it in your small intestine. You took in more than your body could possibly absorb, so it stays in the intestines, makes its way to the colon And that's what leads to the loosening of the. and in a measured dose that can be useful, right? So you can take your magnesium before bed and intentionally dose it a little on the higher side for your body's needs and kind of just make sure that your stool is soft in the morning. That's fine. And we do use it that way. Um, if you wanna absorb it into your actual system, get it into your red blood cells, get it into your bone, into your muscle, and into your brain. you wanna do forms that dissolve easily and are easily absorbed. But again, I'm gonna repeat this, even the best forms are only 30 to 40% absorbed. So if that's the case, your best bet, if you want the most in your body, is to divide the dose out at least twice a day, maybe even three times a day at lower end doses, rather than taking one dose of a large amount unless you want loose.

Leah 22:34

Right. so that leads us to the different forms of Magnes.

Tina 22:37

All right, so the forms that are most absorbable happen to be the ones that are most likely to be in a nutritional supplement. I think magnesium citrate is probably the most popular out there. It's also been out there the longest as far as nutritional supplements go, because it's always been touted as more absorbable than magnesium oxide, and that's true. Magnesium malate is another form Magnesium aspart. there's another form. All of these are equally absorbable. There's magnesium lactate, magnesium chloride, and magnesium glycinate. And you know, I said this in other episodes, what we do with minerals is we bind them to something, you know, so magnesium is bound to the citrate or the malate, or the lactate, et cetera. So for us, when we do magnesium supplements, we look at what it's bound to and say which of these is best for this particular patient. So if it's someone who wants to relax, fall asleep, we might use the glycinate. If it's somebody who needs to concentrate, has trouble thinking they've got mental fatigue, we might use an aspartate form. If it's someone who forms kidney stones, especially calcium oxylate, kidney stones, I would lean towards a citrate form in particular. So always keep in mind whatever a mineral is bound to also may have a biological action. You know, you get two actions out of one supplement this way, depending which magnesium you.

Leah 24:00

and I think of, um, for people with fibromyalgia isn't magnesium malate is what is typically recommended.

Tina 24:08

Yep.

Leah 24:08

those are things that I definitely consider when recommending the form of magnesium, to a patient.

Tina 24:15

Yeah. So when someone just kind of asks you in the hallways passing by, which magnesium should I take? It's a much bigger question than they realize, right?

Leah 24:22

Oh yeah, for sure.

Tina 24:23

It depends what else is going

When should you NOT take Mg?

Tina 24:25

on. Step into my office.

Leah 24:27

So when would Magnesium as a supplement not be the best thing to take? Um, the big caution around magnesium supplements is that if there's any issue with kidney function, that would just kind of be a caution with just taking a random magnesium supplement.

Tina 24:45

Mm.

Leah 24:46

There also are medications that affect mostly that affect kidney function that, um, can affect magnesium levels at least.

Tina 24:54

Yeah, that makes sense. And that has to do with kidney failure in particular. So magnesium is mainly controlled by the kidneys. And when there's too much magnesium in the bloodstream, for whatever reason, a medication or maybe you're getting an IV and it happens to have magnesium in it, your, your kidneys will let it go and your urine it will dispose of it. But if you have kidney failure or a low G F. GFR should be a certain number on your labs. If you see a low G ffr, be careful because if your magnesium is not allowed to leave your urine, you can end up with too much in the serum. it's controlled by your kidney. So if your kidney is, is in any way not filtering properly, you can hold it in your bloodstream and not let it go as you should in your urine, which could lead to. severe effects including arrhythmias. So G ffr, just so I'm clear, g FFR stands for glomerular filtration rate, and you'll see that on your labs. It's a calculation that uses the creatinine on your lab. The creatinine is a, is a waste product, and your kidneys should be letting that go in your urine at a certain rate when it goes high. it can mean your kidneys are not letting waste out of your body properly. And so as that creatinine goes higher, your GFR calculated from that number will look lower and lower. So you're getting a lower filtration rate with a higher creatinine. And if that is true, then you could have higher magnesium, higher potassium, higher uric acid in your bloodstream. There's all sorts of things that go along with this that should be leaving in your urine, and if they're not, they can lead to very severe. Effects in your body, um, including arrhythmias. Um, so make sure your GFR is normal if you're taking a magnesium supplement. And if it's not normal, talk to your pharmacist, your doctor, your naturopath, or whomever, and make sure that it's actually indicated for you. It may not be, it's actually contraindicated at in severe kidney failure.

Fluid loss and Mg deficiency

Leah 26:44

I've mostly seen low magnesium in patients who have had a lot of fluid loss, so a lot of diarrhea, vomiting.

Tina 26:56

And in our world, the most notorious chemotherapy that leads to magnesium deficiency is the platinum.

Leah 27:03

Yeah. Cisplatin especially that has this really strong effect on the kidney function. The medications that affect E G F R, like Cetuximab, Herbatox I think is another one where I've seen, um, patients have low magnesium.

Tina 27:20

Mm-hmm.

Leah 27:21

E G F R, epidermal Growth Factor Receptors. That, that's the medication I was talking about. let's, let's, let's move along with our, um, with our magnesium talk. So is there any correlation with magnesium and cancer?

Tina 27:35

I don't know. Leah is,

Leah 27:37

I don't know. I, I did, I did look it up There are epidemiological studies showing that people who have low magnesium levels may have increased risk of certain cancers. Um, low magnesium levels can increase reactive oxygen species, which then can lead to cell damage, D n a damage. does this mean that one needs to supplement with magnesium to reduce your risk of cancer or cancer recurrence? I would say it means you need to increase more magnesium foods in your diet.

Tina 28:12

Yeah.

What's the best lab to measure Mg?

Tina 28:13

Yeah. And you know, I totally agree. And since we mentioned earlier that serum magnesium is not very sensitive to magnesium deficiency, we probably should mention what is more sensitive, and that's red blood cell membrane magnesium testing. And that can be done in. And all the major labs as well. So they look at the red blood cell and they see how much magnesium has been integrated into the red blood cell, and that can give us a, a more accurate guess of how much is inside cells throughout the body, which is what we care about.

Leah 28:45

but that's not usually what you get when you are going through treatment.

Tina 28:49

No. This is very unusual to, to have this done by a conventional doc, you have to probably go an extra mile and talk to an integrative medical practitioner, a naturopathic physician, or, you know, talk to your primary care physician. This is available, uh, yet Quest in LabCorp and all the big labs. It's not obscure in any way. It's just not utilized enough cuz no one, you know, let's face it, nutrient deficiencies are low on the list of things that people are concentrating on during. or afterwards for that matter, unless they're dedicated to the cause, like an integrative.

Leah 29:21

Yeah. I mean, that's why I always recommend somebody seeing an oncology trained dietician, um, to make sure that there aren't these nutrient deficiencies happening if that's not available. Yeah. Seeing a naturopathic doctor, seeing an integrative oncologist, you know, it's not just about eat for calories. I mean, there's a reason why, you know, why we are more specific in terms of. if you are able try to get as much nutrition in through food, and it's not always possible, but there are ways of supplementing your food using other foods in order to, you know, like if you can only tolerate something like mashed potatoes, finding ways of blending in other vegetables to, um, to get in those extra nutrient.

Tina 30:12

Yeah, and if you're a take the bull by the horns kind of person, then you can get your own labs done online in most states with a couple states, it's not possible. I think New York State is the big one that says, There'll be no ordering your own labs, new Yorkers, but other than that, oh yeah. Most states it, it's allowed in,

Leah 30:30

Hm.

Tina 30:30

just look online and, and we can put a link to the life extension people below, just because it's, they make it super simple. It's basically a grocery cart where you can put them in the cart, pay for them, and go to your local lab core to get your blood drawn.

Leah 30:42

Oh, interesting.

Tina 30:42

Yeah, super easy. And they have docs online they can talk to if you, if you need interpretation.

Leah 30:48

I think that's the important part is just don't take the interpretation into your own hands. Talk to someone to know specifically what's going on.

Tina 30:56

Mm-hmm.

Leah 30:57

Um, is there anything else about magnesium? I, I, I made it like such a big deal at the beginning, like how I love it so much and I'm like, huh, I don't know.

Tina 31:06

no. You know, I'm trying to think of little factoids that we might have left out. you know, you know, I like my little numbers and stuff.

Leah 31:12

So we didn't even talk about what the

What's the dose to take?

Leah 31:15

R D A dose is, So the R d A for magnesium, and that would be from diet and supplements together, um, for men is 420 milligrams. and then for women is 320 milligrams. And so you're saying that we have, what was it, floating about in a body?

Tina 31:34

mostly inside the cells. 99% of it is inside the cells, so it's not out and about in your bloodstream and what is in your bloodstream. A third of that is bound to album. So even what's floating in your bloodstream, some of it's bound up to albumin and not available. So that's why that serum magnesium that they use, that's what it's testing that la last 1% that's floating around either by itself all alone or bound to albumin. But either way it's a, a small, small, small fraction of what's actually in your body. So looking at red blood cells and what has actually made it inside the red blood cells is a much better gauge of what's going. Inside other cells in your body. That's why it works so well.

Leah 32:14

And so you were saying that when you take in magnesium, whether it's food or as a supplement, what was the percentage that you actually absorb?

Tina 32:22

At best, 30 to 40%.

Leah 32:24

Okay, so if somebody takes in 300 milligrams a day, of magnesium through food and, um, supplements, then they are at best getting 90 milligrams. Right,

Tina 32:41

Yes, I've taken it. 300. A third of 300 is? Yeah. Okay. We'll put 90, 92, a hundred.

Leah 32:47

right. All right. That's just a little of math. A little bit of math for your entertainment cuz I'm not a big math person. So I just amused myself by doing some simple math. All right. Um, anything else? We good?

Tina 33:01

I think we're good. I don't know. You know, the big, the big thing is to, um, be replete, eat, well, eat your greens, get a handful of greens a day. Keeps the spasms away.

Leah 33:11

I, you know, and one of my favorite. Ways of recommending magnesium as a supplement are those powdered forms, because sometimes they're flavored and it helps people drink more water, but also you can adjust the amount. And so they're, I'm one of these people where I'm super sensitive to magnesium in whatever form that I take it, and everybody's like, well, you haven't tried this brand. Well, yes I have. I have tried this brand. I have to really space out and take very low doses of magnesium no matter what the brand is. And so I like to recommend to patients, especially if they have constipation, but they're not gonna have constipation forever. It's just something they're going through. Finding those powdered forms, and then that way you can adjust. If you find taking a teaspoon is too much, then take half a teaspoon. That's just kind of my little tidbit about magne.

Tina 34:07

Okay, so sh should I add here? Whenever you're adjusting a dose through a fluid like that, it's called titrating, cuz it's kind of a fun word to know. You can

Leah 34:16

But you're just, it's a powder, so you're

Tina 34:18

I know you put the powder in the liquid, you can sip the liquid,

Leah 34:21

on the liquid. I see what you're saying. I don't do it over the day. I just am like, okay, try a teaspoon. A teaspoon too much. Okay. Try have a teas spoon.

Tina 34:30

Oh, you don't spread it out throughout the day.

Leah 34:33

not necessarily like I, I just, yeah, I mean, it depends on how many times a day I want someone to take something, but if I'm, we're not sure how the effect on the bowels will be. No, I don't mean like put it in water and sip throughout the day, although that's a pretty good idea for some people. Thanks I'm just talking about you don't know how someone's gonna react to the magnesium and so, uh, using a powdered. is sometimes, um, helpful.

Tina 35:02

Mm-hmm.

Leah 35:03

That's a hot tip. We haven't done hot tips in a long time. We haven't done hot tips. We have not done moments of woo

Topical Mg forms

Tina 35:10

Well, the last tidbit of information I wanna say is, um, magnesium sulfate is Epsom salt.

Leah 35:17

mm.

Tina 35:18

So another way you can get some magnesium into your system, especially if you're having spasms, back issues, anything there where you really wanna absorb it through the skin into the muscle layers. Um, magnesium sulfate is a really nice thing to do for the hot bath in, and I'm assuming it is safe to get in and out of a bathtub when I give this advice. but yeah, just be generous. Still at least two cups, if not more, into a bathtub. You gotta be, you gotta get a lot. for to absorb into your skin.

Leah 35:45

Um, where I worked before, we had a compounding pharmacy and I would prescribe compounded magnesium cream for people for leg cramps, abdominal cramps, you know, like whatever's going on. It was really nice, it was like a 30% magnesium mixed into a cream. And like, my caution with that is just be careful because topical magnesium can be ting. And so it might have like a tingly, almost burning sensation Um, so just make sure that it is diluted. If you are finding magnesium oil or whatever online, make sure that you mix it in with something else. But that's a really nice way to deliver magnesium.

Tina 36:23

Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a good one cuz magnesium oils, the topical ones are popular and if you're having trouble swallowing for whatever reason or you can't do it, or your bowels are too sensitive or whatever, What they call magnesium oil is not in fact an oil because magnesium is water soluble, not oil soluble. So when they say magnesium oil topical, it's magnesium chloride. It just feels slippery. So yeah, that's another form that people could, could use.

Leah 36:50

But yeah, definitely. Because, it, yeah, it could be irritating to the skin.

Tina 36:54

Good

Wrap up - follow us!

Tina 36:55

tip. See, there's a tip.

Leah 36:57

There we got, we got three hot tips at the end of the,

Tina 37:00

All right. Let's end on a high note here then.

Leah 37:03

So as always, um, remember to subscribe, follow whatever your, podcast streaming program allows. Um, do it. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. Buy us a coffee.

Tina 37:21

Yep. Yeah, and feel free to be in touch with us. Our email is the cancer pod gmail.com.

Leah 37:29

We're on the social media, um, on, we're on Twitter. We're tweeting into the void.

Tina 37:36

We're tweeting into the void totally.

Leah 37:39

We are, I mean, it's like, it's, I don't know what, I know what happened with Twitter, but anyways, Twitter is just not as interactive as it used to be. Um, but we're there, we're out there putting out, we're both, we both admitted that we used Twitter more as sort of a repository. It's like our Pinterest for articles. Like, oh, I came across this interesting article. I'm gonna like retweet it so that I could keep. Filed away somewhere. So that's how we kind of use Twitter. But um, we're on Instagram, as many of you already know.

Tina 38:10

Yeah. And stay tuned. Our, our, we just did a, this is supplements 1 0 1, and it's one of the many supplements that we've covered. So if you haven't listened to the prior episodes, there's a lot of them. We've got a backlog, um, that we've talked about many topics that. Are of interest to our listeners and so we will carry on and continue doing some of these and talking about side effects and survivorship and onward and forward. We got more coming in 2023, so do hit that follow button and um, know that we appreciate every listener and we'd love to hear from you. And any venue that you choose, private or public,

Leah 38:46

And we'll share it unless you tell us not to. We'll read your letter online. and we'll, thank you. When you buy us a coffee, On that note, I'm Dr. Leia Sherman,

Tina 38:56

And I'm Dr. Tina Kaser,

Leah 38:57

and this is the Cancer Pod.

Tina 38:59

until next time.

Leah 39:01

Thanks for listening to the cancer pod. Remember to subscribe, review and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates, and as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The cancer pod is hosted by me, Dr. Lea Sherman. And by Dr. Tina Caer music is by Kevin McLeod. See you next time.