Who's in Your Pod? Sammy Peterson: The Oncology Dietitian

Leah 0:00

welcome to episode 42 of the cancer pod. On today's episode, we talk with Sammy Peterson, registered clinical oncology, dietician, and holistic wellness coach. Originally from Chicago, Sammy obtained her bachelor's in master's degrees, in dietetics from Arizona state university. She has extensive experience working as part of a multidisciplinary team in an integrative cancer center and is the founder of simply wellness, a holistic health and wellness community. Join us for the conversation.

Tina 0:29

I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one

Leah 0:33

and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside

Tina 0:37

And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

Leah 0:41

But we're not your doctors

Tina 0:43

This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

Leah 0:47

do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

Tina 0:51

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

Leah 0:58

Welcome to the cancer pod

Introduction

Leah 1:16

Hey, Tina.

Tina 1:17

Hi Leia.

Leah 1:18

I'm pretty excited about our guests today.

Tina 1:20

Me too. I'm digging this whole season two interview thing.

Leah 1:25

Yeah, it's new for us. It's it's new, but this is nice because, um, this is somebody really special to me who, uh, we used to work together and, I learned so much about, I don't know, all, all sorts of things. I dunno. She's kind of fabulous. I think we should just get to it and introduce her. and get going.

Tina 1:47

All right, let's do it. I'm looking forward to learning a few things myself.

Leah 1:50

Excellent. So our guest today is Samantha Peterson or Sammy Peterson, as she is known. Um, she is a registered dietician. She is oncology dietician, and. I'm just gonna let her tell a little bit more about what she, what she does.

Sammy-what do you do?

Sammy 2:10

Well, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be on this podcast and be able to talk to you both today. Um, especially from the viewpoint of being an oncology dietician and what that really means to having an integrative approach and how we can really support.

2:27

Patients and just humans at every point of their journey, my journey really started. It's been about a decade now, which is quite wild. And before I got into oncology, I was called to oncology, right from the beginning. I actually volunteered beforehand and I was a dietetic intern. And the first thing that got me, just so intrigued by the way. We approached the individual was that whole holistic approach, you know, taking care of the whole body, mind and soul. So throughout my journey, as a dietician, I've gotten the best experience to work with fellow integrative practitioners. So like I had said my journey initially, Kicked off right off the bat in oncology. And I got to work with some of the most amazing practitioners, some of which involving naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, massage therapy, and of course are amazing oncologists. And. Further teams, that supported us. So I've been a dietician now for about a decade as mentioned, and throughout that I've really gathered such a great experience with patients. And one of the most pivotal moments I would say in my career from my patients was really hearing the fact that they said, I wish it didn't take cancer for me to change. And. Without them knowing one another, they all shared that. And I saw something really promising of it is that when we take a holistic approach, especially on a proactive realm and keeping nutrition, keeping wellness, keeping health, as simple as possible, that's what really empowers individuals and really provide so much hope when they need it the most. And I think out there. Health and wellness has gotten so complicated and it's understandably so based off of the modern society we live in, there's so much stress. There's so much emphasis on convenience foods. There's so much. Lack of care when it comes to mental wellbeing and other things that people could be doing, whether it's before diagnosis during diagnosis, or survivorship at every single point of the journey. There's so many things that we could do, and that has. Been a large foundation of my personal journey, as well as my journey with my patients and clients alike. So throughout that decade, I've really gotten to experience what a true holistic approach to taking care of another human being looks like, and that large, vast impact that we can actually

Board certified in oncology? What's that?

5:11

provide. Yeah. I, I have one quick question in the beginning, cuz. I don't have any history with you. So my question outta the back gates is I heard Leia say that you have been trained in oncology

Sammy 5:23

mm-hmm

Tina 5:24

um, can you just gimme a quick little, like, what does that mean? So you have an R D yes. What does an RD mean? Even for our listeners and then your specialty training in cancer care. How has that gotten and how do people recognize that if they're looking for someone like you too.

Sammy 5:38

So an RB stands for registered dietician, so to become a true registered dietician, you will go through your full master's degree first.

5:47

So I also have my master's in, in dietetics and also my undergrad as well, but to truly become a registered dietician, you'll go throughout your master's program. And then you'll also have. Full dietetic internship that you go through as well. So that's where you really get to dabble in these different areas and see where you feel most fit. And during that time period, I felt so called to oncology. When I got to see the large impact that we got to have. So with oncology, once I got started in it and. Again, became a registered dietician already had my master's degree So it's a board certified specialist in oncology nutrition. You'll also see that described as CSO. Um, and so. To become that you need to have multiple years of experience in oncology, then you'll go through an actual board certification and then you'll actually become a board certified oncology specialist on top of being a dietician. And those are definitely two different things. Of course, they're very complimentary, but the baseline of. Of the knowledge and experience we have first as a registered dietician. I think of it as the foundation. And then we get to build on that foundation to the oncology specific. To be an oncology dietician specifically you'll have vast experience, both in all the types of treatments that somebody can undergo. So again, whether it's hormonal radiation, chemotherapy, or it's in the survivorship, working with side effects, working with. Toolkits of how you can actually be proactive in reducing or preventing certain symptoms. That's where the oncology dietician will come in. But of course it does not stop there. I always say the first and biggest. Thing we always look for is malnutrition. So we're able to assess the patient on the whole level, seeing at first, or is malnutrition present, uh, if not, what's the risk of it developing down the line because nutrition status is the utmost key to helping with quality of life. Through treatment and beyond, and that's, what's really, really important. So we'll look at different measures. One being that prevention or reversement of malnutrition, number two treatment specific and symptom specific aspects, and all the tools that we can provide. Again, whether it's to reduce symptoms or to help with them. And three, one of the most important is that wellness optimization and quality of life. So what can we do to offer. Better quality of life during treatment and after. So that, that would be my answer to that question of what really differentiates a dietician versus a board certified oncology. Dietician and all the specialties and ways that they could really, really support a patient. So if somebody's not sure, Hey,

Where do you find one?

8:46

do I have a dietician available to me? I don't know. First place to ask is ask your oncologist, ask your care team if one is available. And if so, I would definitely get on. Regular check-in basis of seeing a dietician, even if you don't know, like, do I need to see them? Do I not at least get a baseline measure and then you can come up with a plan with that dietician of what that follow up looks like. But I will say of course from firsthand experience, it will make the most impact to your care in this present day and beyond. So what I have learned from the Instagram cancer community. And from following several oncology, dieticians, is that there aren't a lot of you? No, it's some, it's a, it's a field that people don't tend to gravitate towards. Probably be like, why most people try to avoid. Cancer, because it seems very scary, you know, and it is very scary, but what,

What if you can't find one?

9:47

what would you tell someone if they didn't have access to an oncology dietician? Ooh, wonderful question. Well, first I would say of course, always checking to see if access is there. So whether asking your care team, and of course we have a. De directory of different registered dieticians that are oncology based as well. So check both areas. If that's not of access, then I would definitely reach out and look for a dietician, even if they're not specific for. Oncology. See if you can at least get in touch with the dietician. So you can start talking about what that foundation of your wellness looks like. So for example, I had somebody who had come to me, did not have access to a dietician where she was currently getting treated or was about to get treated. She was getting different. Options of different treatment plans and essentially wanted a baseline, like, where am I at nutritionally? How am I going into this treatment? And so that could be an option as well as finding, finding a dietician online who offers telemedicine, you know, support. So say if somebody's not local and at least getting a baseline done, uh, from there of. Your nutrition status first looks like. So

List of oncology board certified RDs

11:03

what we could do is if you can send me the link to the database and we could put that in our show notes. Yeah. Easy. And that probably leads to the next question is that there are a lot of people out there who are nutritionists, who tout different, you know, different foods, different diets, um, as being beneficial for cancer patients. What, what are your thoughts? Like, well,

RD vs. Nutritionist

11:28

what's the difference? What is the difference between a registered dietician and a nutritionist? Now this might be mind blowing to some, because we all hear that. Oftentimes people hear the word dietician and they're like, ah, what is that? Even though it sounds obvious. It may not be obvious in itself. Most people connect with the term nutritionist and there are definitely differences between a nutritionist. A registered dietician and a registered dietician who has their oncology, uh, specialty as, as well. So there's different levels and layers. So to become a nutritionist to keep this super simple, here it is. Anybody can be a nutritionist. That's what it comes down to be. Oftentimes people in their own journey. Maybe they've done some of their own healing or they've gone on a weight loss journey, or maybe it is something specific to cancer themselves that they found beneficial. What often happens is then they of course, want to share and disseminate that information with others. So sometimes they might label themselves as nutritionist, but not might not have that background to it. Or the other factor which most often happens is that a nutritionist can get their quote unquote certification online. That certification will look very different from school to school. Or of course where that certification is actually coming from. Some can be functional medicine base. Some is merely going over the surface area of what makes up nutrition like macronutrients. What are those and all of that. So long story short, as you can tell. With being a nutritionist or somebody who identifies themselves as a nutritionist, it can mean a lot of things and they can have a lot of different backgrounds, a lot of which might not be the best support for you. And so in comparison to a registered dietician, A registered dietician has to go through that schooling, that education and have that foundational knowledge basis. A lot of which is medical nutrition therapy and cancer being a large part of that. Then from that, they also build and have the experience by getting into a dietetic internship. It is very. Very difficult, in this day and age to get matched to one. And so to not only go through the knowledge and education, but then get matched to a dietetic internship, then you go through the internship, gather a lot of vast experience that you'll be able to utilize in your degree. Then you actually sit down. For the actual test and become a registered dietician. And then as I mentioned earlier, taking that up to the next level or elevating that to be a board certified oncology dietician, then you also need oncology specific multiple years of experience, and then sit down for that test as well. And I will say firsthand experience with. You have to have experience as an oncology dietician. That test is not one, of course. Can you study for it? Yes, but it is largely application based. And so you need to have that trusted relationship. So all in all, I would. Definitely recommend if interested in working with a nutritionist versus a dietician versus a board certified specialist in oncology nutrition, going with a dietician is very, very key. First. Then if you can find one that is also board certified, which across the country, we do have quite the directory of it, even though it's limited, the options are there. And in now day and age, we have so much telehealth options that if you don't have one near. You can hop online right from the comfort of your home, which is really, really key. So there is huge differences between the three

Can RDs be board certified in other conditions?

15:16

So I have one quick question and they say there are no dumb questions, but it feels a little bit borderline, never is there board certification for other. Specialties, like, is there board certification for RDS who go into autoimmunity or into cardiology? That kind of thing. Wonderful question. Definitely not a dumb question. It's a great one to ask. Uh, yes. There are other certifications, uh, things like sports medicine is a large one. Uh, weight management is another one diabetes as well. And of course, like I mentioned cancer when it comes to more autoimmune GI health, what you'll see is dieticians getting more functional medicine certified. So they're gonna be taking extra studies around that. Um, maybe be participating in research studies as well, but that's gonna be additional certification. So although. Do have more, uh, certifications in terms of specialties available. It's not quite as vast yet for each and every chronic disease. Uh, but the ones that we do have do cover quite a vast amount. So like I mentioned, if it's, uh, weight management wise, that's gonna be largely a wellness focus. If it's sports, medicine wise, all different types of sports are covered under there. So each specialty will cover a vast.

Tina 16:35

Okay, thanks.

Leah 16:37

So let's take a quick little break and we'll come back and keep talking with Sammy Peterson.

RD + Naturopathic Doctor= Best combo!

Leah 16:56

So Sam, before we started recording, I was talking to Tina and I was telling her how. we used to work together on a team on an integrative care team at cancer treatment centers of America. And I don't know if I ever did share this with, with you, Tina, but. Sam. And I would go into the room together often to see patients because of how well, first of all, I have to say, patients thought you were the ND. And I was the dietician for some reason, always, always they, they would cuz you could tell how much we look alike, but it. I think it was you who suggested that we go in together. I think you started asking, can I go in with you? And so, so talk about that. Talk about like your experience, working with a naturopathic doctor and seeing the patient at the same time.

Sammy 17:50

Yes. Yes. I, you know, initially I had suggested that one because yes, we can easily get mixed up and you know, when you're undergoing. Cancer treatment. And there's so many providers it's, you have so many questions and as they pop up, people share, you know, even if it's not to the say right provider, but then we'll get them connected to the right provider. So what I found was it was just so much more simplistic, especially from. The patient side of things for us to come in together and for them to then just freely ask whatever question comes to mind, whether it has to deal with anything homeopathy related, supplement related interactions, nutrition, eating, appetite, medications, I mean, you name it.

18:37

They can just openly share. And so what I found with working specifically with you as well as your rockstar team of naturopathic physicians, That what we provided just complimented each other so much, which then provided better patient support. So yeah, it was very time saving for the patient and also very streamlined approach. And I felt like it really opened lines of communication really well with the patient, as well as the providers that they could just share whatever was coming to their mind and know, and this was really key and know that their providers were working together. Because that was always something I know that was always shared, like, oh, they recommended, uh, say that I see the speech language pathologist in a, a traditional setting. They might have to leave the building, coordinate the care, right. Go elsewhere. And then they don't know if that's being spoken to their oncology, doctor or save me if it has anything to do with their nutrition. So it really allowed them almost. Sense of security as well. And that is so important.

Tina 19:46

Well, and I, I worked in a clinic in Eugene that I had for quite a while and coordinating with other like-minded people in the community was key to creating that team so that the patient I sat in front of, although we're not all under the same roof, we were still able to assemble a team where the medical oncologist, myself and whatever other practitioners that patient needed, wanted, and was using integrative care practitioners.

20:12

We all communicated with each other. So it is possible to assemble these teams. We're gonna put a link to where to find oncology board certified registered dieticians in our notes. We'll also put a link where people can find board certified naturopathic physicians in their community or afar, and maybe between the two, they can find people who are coordinating and generally speaking, um, if there's naturopaths and registered dieticians doing oncology. Integrative practitioners will have networks and connections to certain practitioners in the hospital setting or in the, clinic, depending which kind of facility someone is using.

Sammy 20:49

absolutely, absolutely such a good point. And again, like I had mentioned too, Uh, not even that it's worst case scenario, but you can just feel comfort in knowing that if somebody's not local, you know, again, if you're a small town, big, big city does not matter that you have the option for telemedicine now mm-hmm and that's really, really key.

21:08

And. If it feels of comfort to you say, from my point of view, if one of my patients wanted me to be in on another visit, say if they were meeting with a naturopathic physician, I can pop on the computer at the same time and we can still do that integrative approach. So the. We had endless options, you know, to provide that. Karen that's pretty cool. Yeah. Now that you say that that's actually a really good idea, kind of like you guys did with the patient before you can just recreate that because we can put as many people in a room, a zoom room or whatever someone uses, as you wanna put. Exactly. So one thing that also I found really beneficial is patients don't have to repeat themselves because they do all day long. They're repeating themselves answering the same questions. And so it was really nice to be able to hear the story once and then. They could get the input from both of us. and like, like Sam said was, you know, feeding off each other. Um, I miss that so much. I think I just miss you CEO.

Sammy 22:08

oh, I miss you too. Everybody always said, and I think that's such a different, that's another, like, you know, good point is they loved our energy together. There's something so special about. Knowing that you're in the best care for people who have your best interest in mind, and then bringing in that fresh energy together to brainstorm. Like, if you are having issues, say with eating. It's like, okay, let's sit down and talk. Talk about this together. You aren't alone. You don't have to figure this out on your own, especially when you're the one that's, as I'll, I'll use the term in the trenches, you know, which that could be difficult for any of us. If we swap positions with anybody at any time, you know, it's like, ah, somebody take care of me now. I'm not sure, you know, I'm the one in, so I think it's. It provides such a positive energy and a safe place to brainstorm and create such a good plan of action

What is the one diet that best fits all?

Sammy 23:04

together.

Tina 23:04

All right. So from a practical note now, I'm, I'm thinking there's a lot of different diets out there. There's ketogenic, there's vegan, there's paleo, there's Mediterranean, there's Icelandic and Japanese diets. There's all sorts of diets out there. What. If you said, you know, you, you, you have to just write it down and say, this is it. You don't get to individualize it or do one of those fun things that we do on a one-to-one basis. You just say, this is a diet that would be fit for anyone. Is there a diet that you would put out there?

Sammy 23:36

That question is amazing and here's my answer to it. A plant rich whole food based diet is where it's. that would be the number one thing without any type of labels in terms of what that could look like, because you can have a plant rich ketogenic diet, even you can of course have a very plant rich. Vegan diet. And you cannot, you know, there's opposite ways of doing things as well. Like you might have a very processed food based vegan diet. So to streamline the commonalities between what research puts out the commonalities between we'll call it some trendy diets, some research, evidence based diets. The underlying tone is that the more whole foods the better. So really going back to the simplistic roots Is the most beneficial. And then the extra layer on it, as I mentioned is more plant rich foods, which therefore will be whole foods. So more plant rich and the more whole food the better.

Are Carbs Evil?

Tina 24:37

So in a general sense, um, I think the big nemesis out there when people are reading online and looking at diets the big nemesis out there tends to be carbohydrate.

24:47

a lot of people are like low carb or even ketogenic or whatever. They're, they're going that direction. Is that something that you condone or is there a better way to understand that whole thing without being baby in the bathwater? I mean, what's, what's going on with that. And what would your beer general advice for folks. Yeah, whenever I would say always put a caution or red flag on something that generalizes, whole macronutrients or macronutrients on the whole and demonizing them. So saying carbohydrates on the whole are bad or fat is bad or protein is bad. So we wanna first look at. Well, what is that person identifying to be carbohydrates? And what is the quality of that? So we wanna look at the source and the quality. Those are really, really two key factors. And then of course the risk first benefit. So again, following those same guidelines of more whole foods, the better, more plant rich foods, the better. If we look at the sources of what creates a carbohydrate. There's many different sources, some of which include grains. That's the first place a mind will go. Second is. Vegetables legumes. And even dairy will have some sort of carbohydrate connected to them. And of course, within those, we wanna look at quality. So those are the sources. Then we wanna look at quality. Are they highly, highly processed where they're further manipulated. And now you're left with just the white part of say that grain. And then they added all these additional things or are. Minimally process, meaning that they're just not in their original form, but maybe they've just been altered ever so slightly. So say black beans that aren't in their dried form, but now we're buying. BPA free canned. And it's a mashed black bean. That's gonna be minimally processed or is it just whole and natural say the black bean from the actual black bean dried in itself. So that's why it's really important again, when looking at. These large macronutrients, like carbohydrates, getting such a bad wrap, look at the source.

What is consistent in the research?

27:01

And then what's the quality. When we look at research still to this day, they recommend quality above everything. so my simple answer to that question would be is choosing more quality. Rich carbohydrates. So including those fruits, including those vegetables, including those grains, if you choose to, I know some people can be a little bit more sensitive and there's many different reasons as to why. Um, same thing with lentils or legumes that family choosing them either from say a dried form or a minimally process form. Those are the types we want to include more of because when we do look at the risk first benefit, the benefit will largely outweigh. because when we remove all of those, so say for example, we remove fruit and vegetables from the diets. Now what about all those micronutrients that you could be lacking in that could be so supportive in your healing journey? So that's what my answer would be.

Tina 28:02

So, so what I heard you say is whole food quality over even looking at whether you should be high carb, low carb, high protein, low protein, any of that, just go whole food first and then start worrying about. The macronutrients, which are defined as carbohydrates, fats, and protein.

Sammy 28:19

Precisely. Yeah, quality will rain first quality. And then the side note to that, that I would also include would be variety. So as you start to explore different things, especially if you're eating more seasonal foods, there's a lot of benefits for that, but quality and variety will rain. First and then choosing this and eating a whole food rich diet.

28:41

That's a perfect place to start then when working with the dietician, depending on the type metabolizer that you are, or any specifics, like if you do have any type of IAL bowel autoimmune, uh, any sensitivities, any allergies, then that dietician can strategically implement those whole food based carbohydrates. So you get the max benefit from them.

Isn't it organic, don't you think? A little tooo organic, you know I really do think.

Tina 29:04

It's interesting that you say this because I have been more vigilant of late with the idea of people buying organically, right? So people put the word organic and the label high on their priority list, but they don't realize that when they take that whatever almond milk, coconut milk, or.

29:24

Something, the list of ingredients is the length of my arm. And I'm, I'm more about simple labels. And I'm almost getting to the point where I think the simplicity of the label is more important than the organic label itself. And so if they have three ingredients instead of 23 ingredients, I'll take the three ingredients non-organic over the 23 ingredients that say is organic on the label.

Sammy 29:44

Yes. Um, an interesting point about this is when it comes to labels, uh, whether it is ketogenic diet, uh, gluten free, organic vegan, whatever the case is often it's marketed as a super sexy word. So we automatically associate. Organic equals health or vegan equals health. Again, oftentimes people will market it as a super sexy word that you're like, oh, I must buy this product when in fact that may not

2 Rules of thumb...

Sammy 30:12

be the case.

30:13

So I have a simple rule of thumb. I call it the simply wellness rule of thumb times two that you can use when it comes to label reading and just creating more simplicity around nutrition. Because again, when you're undergoing treatment and you're working with different providers, there is a lot. A lot of information and also a lot of implementation and then execution, uh, to follow from there. So if nutrition can be more simplified, the better, it's one less thing on your plate that you need to think about. And instead it can just become as part of your lifestyle as part of a healthy diet. So the simple rule of thumb would be one, look at the label. And look at that specific ingredient list. So following closely to what you had said, and just ask yourself one, is it legible? Can you actually understand all of those ingredients on there? If you can. Great. It gets a green light. If you can't just. Give it a little yellow flag as a caution. It's like, okay, proceed. We're caution here. So that's point number one point number two then is asking yourself the length of that then list. How long is that list? So if it's a quite short list short, I determine it usually a 10 ingredients or less. That's pretty good. If it's five or less, I think you've hit the jackpot. Um, But if it's 10 or less, you're like, okay, great. It's a nice short list. And I can read all the ingredients. This looks good for me. So if a food is packaged, even if it's a simplistic food, like black beans, or if we're talking about pasta or whatever the case is, anything can follow these guidelines. If it's packaged all my milk, coconut milk, all of that. And now if you get a second red flag or that yellow flag from it, and you're like, okay, this is a really lengthy. And I can't read most of it, then that's where intention comes in. So you can say, I can either choose this product and continue to move forward, or I can just choose an alternative and just swap something else in that follows those simplistic guidelines. Now, of course, there are exceptions to this rule. Not many. Um, but there are exceptional brands. Uh, one brand I'll use as an example, being a Ezekiel bread. So we know a Ezekiel can have quite a lengthy list sometimes to it. But when we follow that two rule thumb, you say, okay, can I read everything? Yes. Most often they're just a bunch of different grains or ancient seed, like grains that are a part of that list. And you're like, okay, I can read everything. It is a little. But I still can read everything. I'm gonna choose this and move forward with that. So that's, how would I would say is a really simplistic way to start navigating anything that is packaged. So whether it's highly processed or minimally processed, something that isn't in its own packaging, that's a great rule of thumb. You can use that two parter right there.

Tina 33:05

That's great. I like that.

Organic vs. Conventional

Leah 33:07

So when it comes to organic foods, I think that was always a question that patients would have. Um, what, what would be your take on a cancer patient in terms of if they had to choose between a conventionally. Produced product versus organic.

Sammy 33:25

The first thing to think about one is if you're eating whole foods and plant rich. Great. Now this is a great time where you can start looking into the specifics like organic is organic worth it to me. Do I need to be eating organic? Should I be eating organic? These are all valuable. Great questions. So when it comes to organic, my rule of thumb with this is that if it's a soft skin, Fruit or vegetable.

33:54

So merely talking about produce here, if it is a soft skin, fruit or vegetable, that is a great place to start when choosing organic and the big reason being behind it is that the skin tends to be so thin that anything exposed to it on the outside can leach. Right into that food. So that can be a great food and a great place to start with when choosing organic. You'll also likely eat that outside. So if we think of an apple, for example, even if we were to peel that outside skin, it's so thin again, that anything that was exposed on the outside can get internal in the food. So on the contrary, if it's a hard skin, fruit or vegetable, a good example or examples of that could be bananas or avocados, for instance, where you're not going to either eat the outside. Or utilize the outside for anything and is quite thick skinned. Those you can opt to buy conventional the place or the gray area comes when we talk about citrus. So citrus tends to have a really thick grind to it. So again, if you're not going to use the rhyme for anything, you can opt for a conventionally based one, however, Because there's so many benefits to that RH like a good lemon zest. If you're going to utilize that outside at all, then you wanna get that organic. So that's a really great place to start. So that's one rule of thumb that you can utilize when in the grocery store, if it's a soft skin, fruit or vegetable up to buy that organic a tool. That you can use that follows. This is the environmental working group, also known as E wg.org on their website annually. They release a list called the clean 15 and the dirty dozen, the clean 15 are produce that you can opt for conventionally based. So they tend to have the lowest amount of pesticide counts and herbicide counts and all of. On the contrary, the dirty dozen is what it is. It sounds like what it is. It's the dirtiest, fruits, and vegetables that are going to be the highest count. So those are gonna be the ones that you wanna opt for more organic. Now produce is one side when it comes to organic. The next side to think about is any of. Meats your fish poultry, or any of that. So now we're talking about animal based options. So I think of it like a pyramid or a tier when we opt for something that is fully U S D a organic, you're gonna look for the white and green seal to get that white and green seal that says organic on there. And that's gonna be usually right at the front of that label. They're going to be without growth, hormones and antibiotics as well. And then they're also gonna be looking at the feed at which that's say livestock or animal gets fed. So to pass the standards of being U S D a organic at green and white, a hundred percent organic seal, that's what I would opt for for any type of meats. If it is financially available and accessible for you. If not. So on working off that pyramid tier, the next one down that you wanna look for is for it to at least be labeled on the outside antibiotic and growth hormone free. That's kind of the best between the world. So if say it's financially a little too high to buy an organic based, say grassed. Then the next thing you'll just wanna look for is it to say at least no antibiotics or growth hormones added to this product. And again, it'll be right on the front of that label too.

Leah 37:38

And there, there is some controversy where, you know, the thought that a person can't take in that amount of pesticide that would be on whatever it is that they consume.

37:51

Mm-hmm so there's. in the, in the cancer people world and the kind of the dietetic world or the nutrition world, I should say. I have seen a lot of controversy where people are like, there's no need to choose organic. And, uh, it's also a financial issue, right? Yeah. It seems like this almost goes back to what you were saying previously about. Choose whole foods choose plants.

Sammy 38:16

Yes. If you can do anything today, that's the one thing to do is choose more whole foods adding in more organic. That's just a way you can elevate it. And again, it depends on your specific nutrition intake. So say if you're somebody who eats. Plethora of fruits and vegetables.

38:36

Maybe you eat more than the average person does. Well, maybe we can look at some of those, you know, food favorites, like if apples are a favorite and you're like, I eat an apple a day, an apple a day. That's what I do. Well, maybe I'm just going to choose that one to be organic, but nowhere do you have to choose everything to be organic or not? The underlying tone is choosing more whole. Better.

Tina 39:00

I'm gonna add to this, my other piece of advice, cuz it's becoming more and more. I don't know available is eating locally cuz there's a lot of small organic, organic farmers who are not labeled organic, cuz they're just a family farm down the road with five acres.

Sammy 39:15

Yes.

Tina 39:15

And they're selling their berries at the market or at your local grocer or farm stand or whatever. And this is all over the United States. If. Eating, it kind of forces you to eat in season a little bit as well. Hopefully you're somewhere where there's lots of growing seasons, but, um, I think eating locally, knowing your grower that way, and even meats are available this way.

39:33

Right? So you can even acquire meats locally. I put that Highness and I am in my fifties, the word organic. Has changed over the last 20 years, um, meant something once. And it means less and less over time because when organic became a multi-billion dollar market, then instead of large producers, Conforming to the organic standards. They simply lobbied to change the standards so that they could fit it. So organic has been watered down a little bit, which is the other reason I like people to know their growers. If they can locally, obviously you're not gonna shake hands with every grower but you know, as best you can go local and trust your farm stand that they're doing things right. And proper, there is the real organic project out there. The real organic project is. One of those things that I track, it's a lot of farmers and even some grocers across the United States. In any case, I, I, I want people to get the real deal and not just go after a label. Sometimes I'm, I'm a little concerned about organic is just gonna continue to get watered down and be fairly meaningless. It'll be like the word natural at some point.

Sammy 40:44

Oh yes.

Leah 40:44

Natural chicken.

Sammy 40:46

That word. Natural,

Leah 40:47

natural, natural apple.

Tina 40:48

Yeah.

Sammy 40:49

Yeah. You're like, well, it should be natural. Let's hope. Yeah. So following suit with that, that's where it really comes down to, again, that whole. More plant rich. And then when I was talking about quality and variety, that variety is where you can sneak in more of that seasonal, uh, go after more of the local farmers.

41:06

Cuz I absolutely agree. There's a lot of local farmers I know out here that have not gone through that certification because it's so expensive or they haven't been able to, or personally we've had a lot of shifts in our land out here recently with all the. So they've had to move their farm to an area that wouldn't necessarily have the, or have met quote unquote, the standards of having the soil be organic long enough for it. Then to be deemed a hundred percent U S D a organic seal. So that quality is important. Variety. Choosing local what's in season. Yeah. The options are endless out there, but yeah, when it comes down to it with nutrition, there's a lot of simplistic commonalities, whole foods, plant rich, choose high quality and get in a variety is so key. And with that variety, if you can sneak in more seasonal, more local, the better.

Tina 41:58

Yeah, and we, we didn't add this, but you know, grow your own if you can,

Consumer Supported Agriculture (CSA)

Sammy 42:02

of course grow your own. And if you can't, you know, a good place I love is, uh, I don't know if you guys have checked out, but local harvest.org.

Tina 42:11

Yeah.

Sammy 42:11

Um, really, really great, great place.

42:14

At least you can search. If you're not familiar, uh, with farmer's markets buy you, or you can even get connected to a food co-op or a CSA. Those can be other options.

Tina 42:24

I love the CSA option. Um, I kind of like the all in CSAs where at the beginning of the season, you give them a set amount of money so that family can depend on say a hundred people each giving them a $300 for whatever the season brings. So we're all in it together.

Sammy 42:40

Mm-hmm

Tina 42:41

I, I always found those kind of fun because it was a plentiful season. We get lots. Goods in our basket, in our little box. And if it wasn't, you know, we're all in it together, they get to kind of stabilize their income. And

Sammy 42:51

yeah, one thing I also loved about the CSA is a lot of the boxes because they provide so much variety.

42:58

So it's gonna be varieties you won't otherwise see in store. And it may not be varieties that you've. Ever seen before. So I think it adds a level of play Uhhuh back into the kitchen and fun again. And it could be just such a good opportunity for a family to reunite or just reignite a new relationship when it comes to health, wellness, nutrition, cuz you get to have fun in the kitchen and you're like, I. I don't know what this is, but I'm gonna figure it out and I'm gonna play with it. And worst case scenario is you don't like it and there that's okay. You know, but the fact that you're adding more play, I think we all need more play in our lives nowadays, you know? So that could be a great way to do it too.

Tina 43:36

Good point.

Sam, What are you up to?

Leah 43:44

All right, Sam. Tell us what you're doing now.

Sammy 43:48

So since working at cancer treatment centers of America, I was really inspired by my patients and the need for just simplistic. Takes on what it means to be healthy, wellness, your nutrition, and what you're eating. I actually started my own private practice called simply wellness, where it's about being simply well.

44:09

And I offer private coaching. I have a full community of different individuals. All walks of life all across the globe that are just trying to live healthier, be healthier and finally feel good again. And so I've gotten started in that private practice I do in person and, uh, telehealth as well.

Tina 44:30

Nice. So the, is this just cancer care or is it general.

Sammy 44:35

Great question. So I support a lot of individuals. It's definitely a mixed population. Uh, a lot of people that tend to wear all the hats, which many of us can relate to, you know, moms and dads, corporate managers work from home, some of which might have diagnoses of, uh, cancer or might have heart disease or. Things as well. And so I do a combination of medical nutrition, therapy support, as well as general wellness support as well in optimizing their, their health and wellness.

Tina 45:06

And I know you could do this from anywhere, but where are you located

Sammy 45:09

in Phoenix. Good old Arizona. It's nice and hot out right now. Uh, but yeah, so it's, it's beautiful because I love any opportunity that I can do in person. I will, because there's just something about that human connection, obviously when you're one on one, uh, but. With everybody being so spread out and times have changed where a lot of people are working from home. I am able to provide them support right, From their home. And often even before diagnosis occur or even after.

45:39

Uh, so I do a nice range of support for individuals that might be entrepreneurs, corporate managers, or received a diagnosis like cancer.

Tina 45:47

okay, guess my last question for you, cuz I'm always trying to help people who, you know, may, may not be able to access your help or a naturopath

Any books you recommend?

Tina 45:56

for that matter. Um, is there any books that you find yourself constantly telling people, oh, go get this. This is useful as a tool.

Sammy 46:04

I think it all depends on the book that I'm reading, but one book that I've recently uh, gravitated towards it's called boundless by Ben Greenfield and. I think it takes such an interesting approach and it, uh, to health and wellness and. So little side note of how I like to approach a person really based off of the background, again, of working in that integrative model is that mind body sole approach.

46:32

And so I walk work off of five wellness pillars. As I call them are five wellness elements. And one of which of course will be nutrition. Then there's anything physical. So whether that's affecting. Sex drive digestion, movement, support, sleep, support all of the above environmental environmental effects. A lot of our habits, especially without us even knowing, you know, it's happening on the subconscious level.

Sammy 47:00

I'll do a pillar of emotional and mindset support. And then. The last one is a spiritual design. So this is all about designing a life you love. And so to tie this in with the book in particular, I love boundless because it takes those different. Pillars into account of how we can optimize somebody's life so they can feel their best again, you know, and ultimately just feel like ourselves, that's all we want. We wanna feel good and feel good in our skin and feel like us again. So that's why I've been loving that book. And that's a great book to start with. It's quite big. Meaning the large. Size, but of course you can read it online as well, if that's a little easier, but I find it very stimulating that that one is a fantastic one. If you're looking for an easier read, like very quick short, digestible bouts, I love the nutrition action, uh, magazine. I think that one is fantastic, uh, that can just get delivered to you monthly. And it's just a couple pages, so you can read it, you know, on a quick. If you're drinking N a tea, or if you just sit down and you're looking for just like a quick article read, I love that one as well. And the topics will vary typically, uh, from cancer nutrition. And also what I love that it brings in is different brands. So different brands, like what's a yay. What's a nay, what should you be looking for? So it's a, quite a compilation of topics

Tina 48:27

and that one's called nutrition action?.

Sammy 48:29

mm-hmm

Leah 48:30

and that, that one is accessible to anybody.

Sammy 48:32

Anybody can, can order that. Yep. Anybody can order it. You can get, uh, E digital copies or copies to your house. I'm a, I'm a paper person often. Cause I like to just sit down and read. So I still get the, the paper versions in the mail that I look forward to each month. I understand there is actual research that says, if you read things on paper, it will stick in your brain better than when you read it on a.

Leah 48:57

Oh, I believe it.

Tina 48:58

If you really wanna remember something, you're gonna have to print it to solidify that memory.

Sammy 49:03

I like that.

Tina 49:04

Yeah.

Leah 49:05

well, I, I wanna thank

Where to find more info?

Leah 49:06

you so much. Is there anything else you wanna add in before we, we wrap up? Yeah, I think if anybody's looking for support.

Sammy 49:13

One, my door is always open. You know, even if you have just a quick question or need to get directed to somebody within our dietetics community, or just get a, feel one, my email door, however you wanna call it is always open. Feel free to email me, uh, hello at simply wellness, llc.com. And we'll share that below as well. So that's one thing and also I'll be opening up a free resource library. On my website that you're always welcome to go to as well. We're gonna have a compilation of different holistic practitioners, just adding different modalities in there, just so you know what your options are. So that can be another great tool for you to utilize at any

THANKS Sammy!

Sammy 49:57

time.

49:57

Wonderful.

Tina 49:59

Yep. And we'll put those in the show notes, for sure.

Leah 50:01

Thank you. I'm so glad that you two got to meet because I do. About you a lot to Tina. So, um, now this, this has been great and, um, I'm so glad that you're able to join us.

Sammy 50:15

Thank you so much. I would love to be back any time and I can definitely talk your ear off all the stories, all the things that we've learned and all the memories that we've thus far created together.

Leah 50:29

because there are, there are a lot of, um, interactions we've had that are. Stories to be told in the future.

50:37

So not with each other, but you know, in the clinical sense, there are some interesting clinical stories.

Sammy 50:42

Yes.

Leah 50:43

So we're gonna let you go, cuz we know that you've got somewhere to be and um, I will see you in a couple weeks, hopefully when I'm down in Arizona.

Sammy 50:53

Yes.

Leah 50:53

All right.

Sammy 50:54

Oh, I can't wait. Thank you

Tina 50:57

been nice to meet you, Sammy. Thank you for coming. Thanks for carving out a little time to be on our show and, uh, yeah, I'm sure we'll have you back someday

Sammy 51:04

So good to meet you as well. And I look forward to it

Tina 51:07

sounds good.

Leah 51:08

Well, that was really awesome. It was so nice seeing her. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, no, she's great. She is always that energetic and that enthusiastic about, um, about what she does.

51:19

I love it. I love her positive energy. It's contagious.

Tina 51:24

She's got a lot of energy. I'll give you that. Yeah. In a good way. I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a good way.

Leah 51:29

No she's and she's always like that. Like, it's just, it was always refreshing to go to work

Tina 51:35

mm-hmm

Leah 51:35

and to be around her because it's, it's, like I said, it's contagious. It's great.

Tina 51:41

I spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, whether it's in her, this case nutrition. So it's nice to talk to somebody who this is all they do, and to get their take on things that I've already kinda tossed around in my nogging. So it was good. I, I really enjoyed it.

Leah 51:55

Absolutely. Cuz yeah, you don't have a lot of experience working with oncology, um, dieticians, and so, you know, specific.

52:03

Specialized.

Tina 52:04

No, I, I will not name names, but where I come from, the official dieticians were not people who I thought were giving out. Great advice. So yeah, I did not work with the people within the system.

Leah 52:18

So I've introduced something new to you. I've taught you something

Tina 52:24

that's right.

Leah 52:25

Okay.

The wrap up.

Leah 52:26

Um, we'll wrap this. For all of you out there

Tina 52:29

as always

Leah 52:30

as always as always, you know, if there's something that you wanna hear, if you want us to talk to somebody in particular, um, let us know. We do have a list of people who are interested in being interviewed and so where it fits into our, our series. Um, we will definitely be reaching out.

Tina 52:46

Yeah. If you have a rock star, you want us to know about a rock star of an integrative medical practitioner or even a conventional practitioner or rockstar. I, I I'm good with just even a rockstar. If you know a rock star, you want us to talk. So rate and review, go to apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, wherever you listen to us, leave a rating. Yeah. It ratings, help and reviews help a lot more. So, um, give us a little shout. and, um, put a little note in there and it's not just for our ego. It does actually help other people find us, which is really what we're after. And it, it, it, it doesn't hurt our ego.

53:29

I will sleep the same whether you review us or not oh, me too. But I might, you know, do a happy dance if, oh, alright. If it's a nice, if it's a nice review and if it's not a nice review, just be kind. that doesn't make sense. Of course. It wouldn't be kind if it wasn't nice. If it's an unfavorable review, be kind, if it's an unfavorable review, then email us and we can have a conversation that would make more sense. Oh, that's even better. That's even better. The cancer pod@gmail.com. Yeah, that really is us. We really do look at our email. We do. We check our emails often. Well, maybe not that. Yeah, weekly. weekly. on that note. I'm Dr. Lea Sherman and I'm Dr. Tina Keyser. And this is the cancer pod until next time Thanks for listening to the cancer pod. Remember to subscribe, review and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates, and as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The cancer pod is hosted by me, Dr. Lea Sherman. And by Dr. Tina Caer music is by Kevin McLeod. See you next time. END