Leah's Story Part 2 #CancerInsider

Tina 0:00

I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one

Leah 0:04

and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside

Tina 0:08

And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

Leah 0:12

But we're not your doctors

Tina 0:14

This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

Leah 0:18

do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

Tina 0:23

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

Leah 0:29

Welcome to the cancer pod

Introduction

Leah 0:46

Hello, Tina.

Tina 0:47

Hey Leah, we're back.

Leah 0:48

Yeah, so our episode ran a little long, so we decided to split it in two

Tina 0:53

Yes. So what this is going to be is part two

Leah 0:57

Yeah, we'll just pick up where we left off and we're actually gonna record a little bit more that is pertaining to what we talked about in the first episode.

Tina 1:07

Yeah. So in the first episode, you had gotten your MRI and now we will conclude that with where you're at today.

Leah 1:14

Well, we're not concluding it cause we still don't know stuff. So we're gonna do another chapter.

Tina 1:19

Yeah. It's like real life,

Leah 1:21

It is real life. That's my life. Okay, so let's get back to what we were talking about before, after I talked about having had neoadjuvant chemotherapy. And then we'll be back at the end to pick.

Tina 1:34

sounds good.

Picking up from Part 1- Neoadjuvant Chemo

Tina 1:46

Neoadjuvant means that the chemo's done before the surgery and it is usually to shrink the tumor so that surgery is more successful and it's always done in things like triple negative breast cancer, that generally always undergoes neoadjuvant chemotherapy.

Pathology details of Leah's tumor

Tina 1:59

Your type was estrogen receptor positive, progesterone receptor

Leah 2:04

positive,

Tina 2:05

positive,

Leah 2:06

HER two negative.

Tina 2:07

HER two negative. So in the general sense, the PR progesterone receptor positive alongside ER positive is supposed to be where Tamoxifen does its best kind of risk reduction in that scenario more so than ER positive, PR negative

Leah 2:24

Yeah, mine. mine. from what I recall, it was pretty strongly positive on both of those, it was grade three.

Tina 2:32

did you get an onco type DX done?

Leah 2:34

I don't think I did. My

Tina 2:35

No.

Leah 2:35

67 was like 30 something,

Tina 2:39

Mm-hmm.

Leah 2:39

so I mean

Tina 2:40

Yeah. And, you know, in the newest, I think it was, oh, I don't know the year, some in the last few years, they have redone the staging system for breast cancer to include the grade. So they're looking at the grade of the tumor, on the pathology report. they're looking at that now as part of the prognostic indicators. so that wasn't done when you were diagnosed? They didn't use that as part of the, the staging. It was there on the path report, but they didn't use it in a clinical sense.

Leah 3:07

right.

Tina 3:08

Yeah.

Leah 3:09

Like it makes it sound like I was diagnosed so long ago and I guess it kind of was in a, in a way, but not really. It's just weird.

Tina 3:17

Eight years. Eight years ago.

Leah 3:18

Eight years.

Tamoxifen, Aromatase Inhibitors, etc...

Tina 3:20

And you're still on an Antiestrogen agent?

Leah 3:23

I'm still on Tamoxifen. Yeah. There was talk about me switching to an aromatase inhibitor, so I had two injections of Guerin, because two weeks into my chemo. I had some spotting and my oncologist was like, Oh no. I mean, these are not his words. My oncologist did not talk like this. This is my portraying my oncologist. He basically was like, Oh no, we're shutting this down. My words not his. and so I got, I remember just crying. I did not want Guster. I'd always talk about like, Oh, I didn't cry through treatment. I had my moments. And that was one of them. I did not want that. and he talked statistics and I'm sitting there thinking like, I am so much more than a statistic. I really respected my oncologist. I still respect him. I think he's just freaking brilliant. and took great care of me. But that was something that I was like, I wish I advocated for myself a little stronger. So I, that immediately put me into, into menopause. So my, on my second oncologist, after he left to go to MD Anderson, my new oncologist, Dr. Lynch, had talked to me about like, Oh, well, you know, we've looked at your hormones and you're in menopause, like you're postmenopausal, so let's consider an aromatase inhibitor.

Bone density- DEXA scan results

Leah 4:36

And we had done a dxa initially at diagnosis, and so it had been two years. And so we repeated the dxa and I was, I had osteo, uh, no, I had osteopenia

Tina 4:47

In the dxa, the DXA scan is a bone density scan,

Leah 4:52

So people say bone scan, but it's not a bone scan. It's not looking for cancer, it's looking at your bone density. So I had osteopenia and I actually had already broken a bone in my foot.

Tina 5:05

Hmm.

Leah 5:05

I fell off a bicycle and broke my foot. so I was like, I don't want osteoporosis. I don't wanna do the aromatase inhibitor. I could have done, you know, some sort of medication to support my bones that, can potentially reduce your risk of having, cancer appearing in your bones. And I just, I had had such weird reactions to my chemotherapy, to my surgery. Like, I had such weird reactions. I was like, I really don't wanna do more medications. Can I please stay on the Tamoxifen? And she's like, you know, it's your choice. It's, it's fine. And then they, What was it like last year, maybe the year before they ran that test? What's that test where they look to see the benefit?

Tina 5:46

Breast cancer index.

Leah 5:48

Yeah, they did that

Breast Cancer Index test

Leah 5:49

and it showed that there was no additional benefit staying on the Tamoxifen, but I use, vaginal estriol cream, and you can't use that unless you're on Tamoxifen. So, um, and that takes me into a whole different side effect where I actually had vaginal tears

Tina 6:04

Oh,

Leah 6:05

and had it repaired and, you know, had surgery and had it repaired, and then a stitch popped. And so it never healed. And I would continue to have like, spotting from that tear and started using, it was estradiol at the time, and then I switched it to Estriol, to help heal.

Tina 6:24

Mm-hmm.

Leah 6:26

I, yeah, my, my gynecologist who's aware of my history, you know, she wrote me a prescription for the, the Estriol. Later. But yeah, so I'm staying on the Tamoxifen. I guess I'll do 10 years and then see what happens.

Tina 6:40

Yeah, that breast cancer index is really interesting. I find that it's underutilized. I don't have a lot of docs ordering it. it's literally just called that, we're not making up that name. Breast Cancer Index is a test. of the actual tissue that was taken out

Leah 6:54

Yep,

Tina 6:55

looks at whether or not continuing tamoxifen or in a tase inhibitor should be beneficial or not, given the parameters that they look at in the pathology of the, of the original tissue.

Leah 7:05

But we've talked about this before and they look at the benefit for like a really short time period, like five years or something. It's really obnoxious where you're just like, I've done five years. Thanks. I'm still here. Got it. You know, so it, it is, it is. I don't know. I mean, my oncologist had brought it up and was like, Well, we could do the breast cancer index and see, you know, if it's appropriate. and so yeah, I was able to have that done. I don't think my insurance covered it. I think we paid up front for it. So that's something else for people to consider. But

Exercise?

Leah 7:36

I mean, my goal was to increase my physical exercise because exercise really has been shown to reduce your risk of recurrence, of risk cancer. And I'm human, I go through phases of like, Yeah, I'm exercising, and then I'm like, Oh, I don't wanna exercise.

Tina 7:54

Mm-hmm.

Leah 7:56

So I have my tomoxifin backup.

Tina 7:59

So, and the, the exercise is also helpful for your bones. I mean, that's the one thing that that's very reliable be because especially if you build muscle mass, cuz breaking down the biology to the simplest form, the compounds your body makes to build muscle are the same or similar compounds that it makes to build bone. So you literally can't build muscle without building bone. It doesn't happen be, which makes sense, right? Because you wouldn't want your giant bicep hanging off a little skinny bone underneath. That wouldn't work. You'd snap the bone with a big muscle. So you have to build bone when you build muscle. Big Popeye forearms.

What would you do differently?

Tina 8:33

All right, So I'm thinking. A question I often ask when people are, telling their story and what that is, cuz we wanna learn from you,

Leah 8:43

Mm-hmm.

Tina 8:44

We want people to learn only from your successes, but also from your mistakes. And so in that sense, if you could go back and do it all over again, what would you do differently?

Leah 8:53

I would exercise. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I've thought of that. I mean, and I don't think of it like, Oh, I wanna do this again. But no, I would've exercised absolutely. Weights exercise. I belonged, did I belong to a gym? Then maybe I joined afterwards, but I mean, there was no covid, so I could have worn a mask anyways, and gone to the gym. But yeah, I absolutely, 200% would've done weight bearing exercises. Totally. And this is before learning the benefits of exercise. During cancer treatment,

Tina 9:27

Mm.

Leah 9:28

my oncologist, who was, is visionary. I mean, he had a phase one trial going on while I was getting treated, looking at fasting. prior to during and after chemotherapy in women with early stage breast cancer, um, I fasted, but I wasn't part of the trial because I did have broth, but, um, but still like, and he was looking at all of these labs and stuff. So, so in that way he was very forward thinking. I have posted that before on, commented on people's Instagram pages and have been attacked for it, saying like, Oh, I would get another oncologist. You know what? My oncologist, I am so grateful that he was my oncologist when I was diagnosed. he also had really encouraged exercise. This is back in 2014. This wasn't being talked about One of the other dieticians at the cancer center asked me one day, Are you exercising? And I'm like, Ah, I move around at work and she goes, Because I was being treated on a different floor, for the remain. The first infusion was in the main infusion room, and then because I felt weird like dragging my pole in front of my patients to go to the bathroom and whatnot, they put me on the research floor that was less busy and a little bit more private. One of the dieticians was like, You need to be exercising while you're getting your infusion. 2014, y'all ahead of her time. So yeah, I don't know where I was going with that. But the two people, you know, who were part of my team, I think even my nd like they were all telling me to exercise. I was so freaking tired. I knew that exercise would help me with my. But there was no way I was gonna exercise during my infusion because the minute they gave me that IV Benadryl, I was out. I mean, I was, forget it, I was gone.

Tina 11:16

Mm-hmm.

Leah 11:17

I barely remember leaving the cancer center. I didn't drive y'all pause as an aside. I had rides. But, um, yeah, so not that I ever wanna do this ever again, but if I do have patients of mine who are listening to this, you now know why I push exercise as hard as I do.

Tina 11:38

Mm-hmm.

Leah 11:38

I'm even working with the Cancer Center and Heart and Vascular that's part of the hospital right now, working on a program for patients at the cancer center to exercise during their treatment. So, I mean, this is like, this is my, this is my soapbox.

Tina 11:55

Uh huh.

Leah 11:55

That's the one thing that I,

How about diet?

Leah 11:57

I mean, cuz my diet, I ate, I ate what I wanted What I wanted was protein, veggies, and fruit.

Tina 12:05

Mm-hmm.

Leah 12:06

My husband would cook when my mom wasn't around and he would cook some sort of meat product and I would come home and make the vegetable, you know, the vegetable side of it. But that's what I ate. I didn't crave sweets. I had, I remember on my birthday I had a glass of wine, a glass of champagne, I think I must have had some sort of gluten-free chocolate, you know, chocolate cake or something. I must have had something like that, but I really didn't crave sweets.

How about fasting?

Tina 12:34

Mm-hmm.

Leah 12:34

I don't think I lost weight from fasting. I think I stayed about the same. It wasn't until I went into menopause and started on all the tamin and everything that I gained weight, but

Tina 12:45

So you're fasting around the chemo. How did you fast around the chemo infusion?

Leah 12:50

Um, 24 hours before

Tina 12:52

Okay.

Leah 12:53

day of during my infusion, I would have broth either, chicken bone broth that they had in the cafeteria or a vegetable broth. I preferred the chicken because it just tasted better.

Tina 13:03

Mm-hmm.

Leah 13:04

and then I, I think I've talked about this. I made Rebecca Katz's magic mineral broth and I threw bones in it, so it was a mineral bone broth, and that's what I had. That was the last thing I had before I fasted. That's what I had. If I didn't have what was at the cancer center for broth during my infusion, and then that was what I had to break my fast.

Tina 13:29

Okay.

Leah 13:30

So it was 24 hours before, 24 hours after my first infusion, because I had fasted to get my port placed. That was like a 60 something hour. Like that was crazy. That was like a ridiculous, because I had to fast before my surgery

Tina 13:45

Mm-hmm.

Leah 13:45

and then I had to fast 24 hours before my chemo. Yeah, no, that was like the never ending fast, but I was fine. I never felt hungry. I stayed hydrated. I did not experience any nausea or vomiting. Definitely experienced fatigue. Definitely experienced neuropathy, but everything else, it was, it, it, it was kind of easy and I think it was easier to do it then in the moment because I was in that state of I need to do everything.

Tina 14:16

Yeah.

Leah 14:17

Yeah. if you try to get me to fast for 24 hours now, I'd be a big whiny baby. be like, Hell no.

Tina 14:25

All right. In your defense, you do do pro on,

Leah 14:28

And I'm a big whiny baby. You have. I've recorded these when I'm like breaking my pro lawn fast or whatever. Like, no, you, you know, I've done this actually during ProLon.

Tina 14:37

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't call you a whiny baby, cuz when you don't eat much for three days, four days, five days. And I know ProLon it's a fasting mimicking diet and we'll put links to that. Down below, and we'll also link to the idea of fasting in general around chemo. So just so the listeners are aware,

Leah 14:55

I've got something that my, my former oncologist wrote too, so we can link to that. I think we've done that before too.

Tina 15:01

Okay? So just do you do pro on every month,

Leah 15:03

No, I don't do it every month. Um, I was doing it every other month and you know, when I first did ProLon, I was hungry. When I do it now, I've been doing it since what, 2019? So three years ish, almost four. I don't know, I can't count. I don't do math. I'm not hungry. I just miss food. So I'm not sitting there going like, Oh, I'm starving. I'm just like, like by day four, I'm reading recipe books or watching like food channels, you know, like I wanna eat. And it's not like I'm sitting there like, Oh, I'd eat something. It's just, I miss it. I miss flavors and textures and all of that kind of stuff. I miss the pleasure. Yeah, because I am very much. I love eating. I love cooking. I love eating. So, um, So, now we're sounding like a ProLon ad, they now have a one day reset

Tina 16:00

Oh,

Leah 16:01

and I got one and I did it, and I still got that whole, like, I want my food, but it was so much easier. So I think what I'm gonna do, instead of doing it every other month,

Tina 16:12

Mm-hmm.

Leah 16:13

the whole kit, the whole five days, I think I'm gonna do a kit and then a couple months of like the reset and then go to Kit again. Like I'm I'm spreading it out because it's really like

Tina 16:24

Yeah.

Leah 16:25

I get tired of soup. I mean, it's, it's, actually like, it's decent, but I get tired of it.

Do you do Time Restricted Eating(TRE)?

Tina 16:30

Yeah. And do you, on top of this, do you do the time restricted eating?

Leah 16:35

I was doing it. we've talked about this before, where my schedule now doesn't necessarily lean towards me being able to do it because I don't wanna feel like I'm, I mean, I get to work and I eat. but then I start seeing patients like I, like I had, if I eat late, if I eat like at eight o'clock at night, which I hate to do, or if I finish eating at eight, then I can't eat until nine cuz I do a 13 hour, fasting period. Because that's what works best with me and it's really kind of the easiest one to

Tina 17:10

Mm-hmm.

Leah 17:11

the research is like. The 13 hours, you're good. I'm like, woohoo. So, um, I I try to do it, but I don't know It doesn't always happen,

Tina 17:20

Yeah.

Leah 17:20

so I try to do it a few days a week.

Tina 17:22

okay, So from, let's say you finished eating at six at night, you don't eat till seven the next morning. That would be considered 13 hour fast. the data we're talking about It's an observational study. Um, there's actually two out there, two papers. But basically women who did that had less recurrence of their breast cancer. This caveat to this is we don't know cause and effect. We just know women who were doing that had less breast cancer recurrence. Is this because they had better blood sugar? Is it cuz they slept better? Is it cuz of other reasons? We don't know. But, time restricted eating seems like something we should be doing in general. 13 hours sounds totally. Like enough, they're looking at even going 16 hours for people with blood sugar issues like prediabetes and even type two diabetes and seeing an improvement in the underlying physiology of the condition, which is the fascinating part cuz we have these genes in our cells called clock genes and it's fascinating. They are programmed to turn on and off over the 24 hour cycles, various genes. And these clock genes, are implicated in some cancers including breast cancer. So the better we can sink ourselves with the feeding and fasting, the sleep, the wake, the 24 hour cycle, that is the rhythm of a human body, the better our health will be overall. And possibly it might reduce our risk of various conditions,

One caution with Time Restricted Eating!

Tina 18:40

including cancers.

Leah 18:41

well, I try to reign my female patients in if they. Try to do over 16 hours. Cuz there's a lot of stuff where it's like, do 18 hours, do 24 hours. And that can lead to issues that I've seen mostly in women. Um, where they start to retain abdominal fat. I try to stick with the 13 hours because it is doable sometimes, you know, I get busy at work, whatever, and I will do, you know, 16 hours unintentionally. I think a really important thing, at least for me, and it's one thing that I have picked up from ProLon, is making sure that there is like a, at least a three hour time period between eating, because I am one who will just graze all day and I have digestive issues. I think that we're just really exacerbated with my treatment. so I digest food better. I have less bloating and other, you know, less reflux if I give myself three to four hours between my meals.

Tina 19:40

Mm-hmm.

Leah 19:40

And that is something that ProLon the way that I do it, it's, I set it up so that I do have three hours in between. Mostly because I'm trying to make sure that I'm I'm not waiting too long to eat because you have such little food in that program. But, um, yeah, that's a, that's, that to me is a big part of my regimen is not to do the constant grazing,

Tina 20:04

Mm-hmm. That makes sense

Leah 20:05

which, you know, and, and this is as, as a breast cancer survivor. I mean, if somebody is going through treatment right now, you know, follow what your dietician says. If your dietician says have small meals every couple hours, like, go for that. I mean, that's what you should be doing. This is me where I'm at, eight years out. working on my other issues,

Tina 20:26

Mm-hmm.

Leah 20:27

health wise, and I found that definitely having that gap helps.

Tina 20:31

Yeah. And when you mentioned the idea of women gaining abdominal fat, visceral fat may be even more fat deposit in their liver, I would assume if there's too much fasting going on. that's an interesting idea because if you fast, your body needs to get ready for the next fast. So in some ways, the time restricted eating makes a lot of sense because your body can rely that there will be food coming, you don't go days without it. There's a little trigger in the body that says it's coming. You don't have to go socking it away in fat stores you're gonna be without calories for days at a time. So it's interesting that you have the observation, cause it, it makes physiological sense that too much fasting can lead to a conservation of energy where the calories are literally go into storage because your body's expecting you to fast again.

Leah 21:17

Yeah, so, and I've said that with patients who are in survivorship and they tell me that they're doing, you know, time restricted eating and they're, they lost a lot of weight initially and then it stopped and it seems to be really hard to, to come off their belly. And I'm like, Well, why don't we just try cutting back a little bit? So

Tina 21:33

Yeah. Somebody just explained to me that when bears, eat all those berries in the fall before hibernation, didn't realize this, but they're giving themselves a fatty liver on purpose with all the sugar and the fruit and the berries and the, and the excess calories. They get a fatty liver so that when they go to sleep, all the fats in their liver then get mobilized for their energy while they're sleeping. Mother, they're

Leah 21:53

it just made me think about that joke about bear poop with berries and the bells. Do you know that joke?

Tina 21:59

don't know what you're talking about.

Leah 22:00

No. It's a really good joke, but I can't remember it. But it's funny, I might just record it separately and stick it at the at the, stick it at the end of the episode for everybody to hear. It's a really good joke. Anyways,

Cancer from many angles...

Leah 22:11

I think we've, we've, talked a lot about a lot of different things. Didn't go too deep into liver cancer, but I do want people to be aware because breast cancer does get a lot of attention in October, but, um, it is also liver cancer awareness month. And yeah, it's, it's, I mean, all, all cancer is tough and it was a lot harder for me to watch my father go through treatment for liver cancer than. It was for me to go through treatment for breast cancer, but then again, it was also really hard for me to go take care of my mom and watch her go through treatment for ovarian cancer. So I guess in my case, it's just easier for me to go through it. I don't know.

Tina 22:59

Yeah.

Leah 23:00

sucks.

Tina 23:02

Cancer does suck and it sucks

Leah 23:04

Mm-hmm.

Tina 23:05

and I can see how own experience is something you had some control over too. It It's hard to see our loved ones go through it.

Leah 23:11

Yeah.

Tina 23:12

The sense of lack of control or helplessness even uh, rough.

Fast forward 2 weeks: update

Leah 23:24

All right, Tina, we are back. Fast forwarding a couple of weeks from when we first recorded this.

Tina 23:29

Yep.

Leah 23:29

where we last left off. I had, just come back from getting an mri. and we didn't have any results or anything from that. It was just I was feeling something weird in my left implant, and so my medd on ordered an mri and so I had that done up here and it came back with something suspicious in the right breast, which is actually there, as opposed to just an implant on the other side. So, I got a biopsy today. Mm-hmm. and I will be getting the result sometime tomorrow maybe. Or at least my met uncle will get the result tomorrow and then she'll have to call me. So yeah, Talk about Talk about, Yeah. The lack of control. The sense of lack of control. Hello, right? Surprise. It's the October surprise. Isn't that what they all talk about with politics? The October surprise,

Tina 24:24

Yeah. This is a whole nother version. And yeah, so this is part one and two. So when we started part one, you had had the MRI waiting for that result,

Leah 24:32

right?

Tina 24:32

And now we're waiting for the result of the biopsy itself.

Leah 24:35

So it's another waiting period. Yeah, So I'm sure there'll be a part three, and maybe it'll just be like a little five minute episode. where we're just like, Oh, hey, I'm back. Alls good. Bye. Later out. On that note,

Tina 24:49

Yeah. You hope for one of the, one of those words in medicine that you hear

Leah 24:52

Unremarkable. Yeah. So, um, I do have to say, and it's not like I haven't experienced anxiety or being skin anxious, just the word I like mm-hmm. It's not like I haven't experienced that before, but I have to say that this truly was, um, yeah, it was major. It was just, because it wasn't as fast as if when I was living in Arizona and I could just get everything done right away.

25:16

Mm-hmm. I now am at a community cancer center that things move fast, but not to the speed at which I am accustomed. So, um, yeah, it's been hard.

Tina 25:28

yeah. that waiting time between scans, just finding results, Yeah. Where you were before was a private hospital and they were a destination hospital too, so people were coming in, so they were, their systems were set up for,

Leah 25:40

for being fast

Tina 25:42

to be convenient Yeah. To people who were traveling from afar to get there. and they took very good insurance, you know, at that place. And so generally speaking, they had just better care all around. And I, I hate to say it, but it came down to money flow. I mean,

Leah 25:55

but it still, it still is fast. That's the thing. It's no longer in that model because of all of the changes in healthcare, but you still get results fast anyways, so yeah, it, it, it's, it's a little different down there, but a lot of it is the same.

26:11

Plus the fact. I don't know. It just, the whole thing just, it sucks. Mm-hmm. and, Yeah, it's that unknown because I think I even was texting someone, Was it you or someone? Oh, I was, I was texting someone saying I was freaking out because I hadn't heard back. about the mri and I was trying to talk myself down because I didn't have access to a portal because it wasn't through my cancer center and I don't have a portal here. And so I couldn't read the MRI and I wasn't hearing back, and it was, you know, freaking me out because the longer you don't hear back, the more that your imagination goes and the more you think that this is bad news. Mm-hmm. And then the very next day I got a call from the nurse saying, Oh yeah, we need to get a second look ultrasound and possibly a biopsy. And so then I called to schedule that. And because the interventional radiologists don't work all the time, The soonest available appointment was two weeks out so actually it's been longer since we recorded, but yeah, I've been like going crazy. Yeah. Losing my mind and I feel better today, now that the biopsy's done, and then knowing that in a day or two I'll have the results. Mm.

Listener comment

Leah 27:35

Hey, I'm gonna read a comment

Tina 27:36

like a listener comment.

Leah 27:37

it's a listener comment that was on, it was on Apple Podcasts, and if our listeners leave comments, maybe I'll read them too. So, this is a really nice one. It's from a J Hay and it says one of the best. This is a must listen to podcast to get valuable medical and lifestyle information for anyone touched by cancer. Fun way to learn about the functional approach. No voodoo but sensible, Highly recommend.

Tina 28:08

Wow. And AJ's not, it isn't related to either of us, right?

Leah 28:12

I don't know who, I don't. It could be, but I don't know who it is. I don't think so. I don't, It's not it, it's not, Hey, it's not one of my parents. But, um, no, I, I like that. Not voodoo.

Tina 28:23

that's awesome.

Leah 28:24

Oh, that's gonna be a t-shirt.

Tina 28:27

It's not voodoo.

Leah 28:28

not voodoo. Could be if you want it to be, but it's not.

Tina 28:32

That's great. We should read more comments. Um, Apple seems to be the place that most people leave reviews. there's a lot of small indie players out there too. Directories podcast directories, um, enjoying one now called Overcast.

Leah 28:44

I haven't looked to see if other places have reviews. I thought you could just do it on, like, on the, on the majors.

Tina 28:49

you're right, the majors are where they have the stars and the actual comment area. but there's other, directories and, and indie podcast players out there that are kind of nice to hear it on too. Um, so I encourage people to check out some less. Podcast players mostly because I think that, um, we are an indie podcast. We are not NPR we are not the bbc.

Leah 29:12

We're not Ted Talk

Tina 29:14

we we're that theater down down the alley with the good play that

Leah 29:19

We're off off Broadway.

Tina 29:21

way off Broadway we're way off.

Leah 29:23

off. Broadway. Okay? we got, we got stuff coming in season two. We we're figuring it out. So stick around, follow us on the social media. You know what to do. On that note, I'm Dr. Lea Sherman,

29:38

And I'm Dr. Tina Kaser, and this is the Cancer Pod. Until next time. Thanks for listening to the cancer pod. Remember to subscribe, review and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates, and as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The cancer pod is hosted by me, Dr. Lea Sherman. And by Dr. Tina Caer music is by Kevin McLeod. See you next time.